Thu, 25 Mar 2004

Life of a Palestinian boy

Continuing the thread in my post on Palestine and aj's and DanielS's followups, we've had a short talk on the subject on IRC. It's worth stating it here though, to more or less continue the thread.

I'm not trying to justify or support the Palestinian suicide bombings, but we need to understand what Palestinians are going through to see why they go ahead and blow themselves up, killing dozens near them. For decades, the Palestinians have been opressed and their land occupied by the Israeli army.

Someone must be quite desperate and have no horizons at all in their future to decide that they want to stick an explosive belt around their body. I don't know the exact figures, but there was a study done on the young population of Cisjordania and Gaza, and in both territories, but specially Gaza, the children were found to be depressed, with difficulties to sleep during nights, and easily frightened whenever they hear a loud noise (airplanes, hellicopters) outside their houses. Palestinian kids, instead of having an infance, grow up in dry, dusty refugee camps. Their favourite games are running around the tanks, and throwing stones at them, to annoy soldiers, who everyone and then shoot back. These kids have been born and raised outside their real homes, in overpopulated guettos, have seen how soldiers randomly raid their camp, beat or kill their older brothers, fathers, or uncles, have seen how their best friend was killed by a "lost" bullet, they have seen a bulldozer destroy their home without prior notice, because their neighbour went out with a bomb the night before. These kids see and live these things with even less than 10 years. They have no future other than one day becoming martyrs themselves, making their families and neighbours proud.

If this isn't enough, Israel is now building a horrific wall to aisle Israel from Palestine completely, even if that means that Palestinians can't cross to Israel to go to their working places. Unemployment is over 60% in some cities of Cisjordania and most of the population depends on international aid. If this isn't enough, Israel sends fighters which fire missiles at their "enemies", and if 10 innocent citizens are killed as well, too bad. When a bomb goes off in a Israeli city, it's a unacceptable terrorist attack, when it's an American missile fired by a Israeli soldier, US leaders say "Israel has a right to defend itself".

As long as Israel and the US keep denying Palestine their most basic rights, they will be fuelling the hate of these people, which will have less and less reasons to not stick a bomb to their chests. Just go away from Palestine, stop stealing the small bits of worthy land they have while building your fucked wall, stop the random killings, and help finance the rebuilding of Gaza and Cisjordania. Give Palestinian kids a chance to go to school, learn to be normal children and in a few years your problem will be gone. Keep your current policy and you'll get weekly bloodbaths in both sides of the wall.

First post!

Posted by Ross at Thu Mar 25 15:38:33 2004

About your post:

The things you are writing are all true, but you are somehow mislead on who to blame - the current Palestinian "government" that is steeling aid money from it's people, encouraging terrorism, and most importantly working against the peace process.
The latter is most evident as in Camp David 2000 Ehud Barak gave Arafat the best offer Israel could theoretically give, and Arafat said no, and started the infifada. The intifada caused more roadblocks, and the creation of the wall.

Another tiny thing you seem to have misunderstood - how can the wall in itself be wrong? The Palestinians can't have the cake and eat it - work in Israel and have their independence. Not with out a peace agreement, and on that issue - look on the above paragraph. However I do agree that it is stupid to build it around the settlements, but that is a result of the Israeli government being rather right-wing, which is also result of the collapsed peace process.

Posted by Sergej Kotliar at Thu Mar 25 21:44:51 2004

Some short thoughts:
Sergej: The 2nd intifada was proclaimed around 2000, after Ariel Sharon ascended the Temple Mount.
Basic problems:
- Hatred among both sides is big enough to prevent peace
- Isreal still spans an area that is bigger than what was declared Israel in 1968
- Social and terroristic activities are interwoven (Hamas runs hospitals as well)
- Many people in Isreal seem to anticipate that it's their people's fate of fighting against threats, especially after the Holocaust
- Sharon is a general, he has lead some Blitzkriegs (inter alia 68) and will always prefer violence
Sergej seems to think that peace treaties couldn't be established because of the Palestenians. Keep in mind though, that there are extreme groups on both sides. Proceedings failed before 2000 as well and as I stated above there where military conflicts over 30 years ago as well.
We're far to late to put an end to aggressions, unfortunately. I blame western states and the US for not having interfered. The US still sponsors Israel with weapons and money and the onliest civil airport Palestenians had some years ago - which was payed by the European Union - was extinguished using US weapons. Awkward.

Posted by Christian - Manny Calavera - Neumair at Thu Mar 25 22:05:41 2004

Why is it a common opinion that the intifada started because of some guy climbing some mountain? No! The intifada started because it was time for it to start, because it was organised by the same people that sabotaged the peace process.

Also, I am not talking about extreme groups, I am talking about the fact that the Palestinian LEADERS (leader != people) said no to an offer, which they knew would never be higher. So if you want someone to blame, blame chairman Arafat.

I do not understand where the number 1968 comes from, it seems you just use it everywhere to prove your knowledge, but fact is, Israel was founded in 1948, and the six-day war was in 1967, and your use of the world Blitzkrieg is a too obvious reference to the Nazi's, I won't even respond to it.

About your problems, in order of appearance:
1. yes, there is hatred, why shouldn't it. However most of the regular people want peace. not love, peace!
2. Israel spans the area that it won in a war it didn't start, and has the border it believes it can defend. Also, as you know of the peace process with the other countries - land is traded for peace.
3. Hamas running hospitals is a terrible terrible thing. Yes. (actually, it is the terrorism that is terrible). Would it not for a corrupt government, there would be money for social activities, and this would not have been a possibility.
4.Israel has fought 4 "regular" wars in 50 years, not including two intifadas, constant terrorism, and two gulf wars. Is that opinion really strange?
5. Sharon WAS a general. He is now a politician, with quite a bit of political experience. If Sharon is a general - then Arafat is a terrorist. Difference is that Sharon is a democratical leader, which Arafat is not.

//S

Posted by Sergej at Fri Mar 26 00:31:58 2004

I am "only" an Arab born in germany so even not really an Arab, but since my birth I live with all what you said EVERY DAY every hour and every minute if I like it or not. All what you said is true, and it doesn't really interest me what the other side thinks cz the other side will naturally think differently BUT my hurted life tells me something different! And it tells me that I totally agree with what you wrote because I live it myself everyday and becasue I suffer from it.
I am not a fundamentalist or a stubborn donkey, but if I see how the wall takes 40% of Ramallah and destroys the livings of poor palastinian farmers whereas Israelis have showers in their houses, then I really ask where we are, without mentioning ALL what was said and done... Which is REALLY huge... This is only a nothingless in the ocean of actions...

Posted by Arafat Medini at Thu Apr 8 23:28:11 2004

Food for thought:

It only takes a quick glance at the facts and figures to realize who is being wronged in this situation.

  The pro-Israeli excuse of security and suicide bombers needs to be examined.  If a suicide bomber hits a military post, is that a suicide bomb, or a tactic of war?  When a suicide bomber attacks helpless citizens, is that the fault of an individual or a govenment? 

When a government attacks helpless civilians, denies them to their basic human rights, and treats them as animals, are they punishing the "terrorists?"

Posted by Gab at Mon Jul 26 09:28:56 2004